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 Dimarzio = Cream Nazis? 
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Post Dimarzio = Cream Nazis?
Well I guess this may be common knowledge.. but it's new to me. I was looking into another sweet pickup company and emailed them asking if they can sell me the humbuckers in Cream/Cream color.. then they told me they can't make or sell them because Dimarzio has a trademark on them............... WTF!?

A fuckin trade mark on a color???! WTF is up with that?? Not only am I know pissed since I wanted to get those pickups in that color but I'm also wondering how Carvin is able to make cream pickups.. I'm guessing it's because the pole pieces make their pickups really distinct.

Well I don't know what to do now. I don't care TOOO much about aesthetics but I want freakin' double cream humbuckers that aren't made by dimarzio.. is that too much to ask?

So I've come to the conclusion that Dimarzio are cream nazis.. perhaps just plain color nazis that just couldn't get black trademarked..

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:17 am
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Wtf? That's like Fender telling everyone they can't use red for example. How in the world did they get a trademark to that?


Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:44 am
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LOL

that's so ridiculous!

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:38 pm
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They should try to cheat... like making their cream color a tiny little bit lighter or darker and trying to pass it off as an original color and going like "Well how the fuck do you define 'cream' anyway fucknuts?". We call this one "Creme" which is french for "Cream" and it's an entirely different color. What? Are you saying it's the same? Are you fucking retarded?


That's what I'd do :lol:

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:53 pm
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That is really weird, considering that other people don't seem to have a problem with cream pickups. I've got a mix of one Lindy Fralin and one DiMarzio in a guitar and their cream colors are nearly identical. But yeah.. that's ridiculous


Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:40 pm
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Pwned.

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:09 pm
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Cream nazis! haha. I'm surprised you can trademark something common like a color combination. :shock:


Fri Feb 12, 2010 5:19 pm
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NO CREAM FOR YOU!

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:30 pm
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The trademark covers appearance. Carvin uses 11 pole bobbins which does not look similar enough to Dimarzio's 6 pole piece bobbin. Some people have bill lawrence pickups in double cream. Those have a single blade pole piece so it doesn't infringe on the trademark either.

Some companies have made double creams, but to get around the trademark they sold them with a pickup cover on. Its up to the pickup maker if they are willing to do this. Then you remove the cover and you have a non dimarzio double cream pickup.

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:13 pm
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HAHAHAHA nice one Sir Robin :D


Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:35 pm
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xjustice09x wrote:
The trademark covers appearance. Carvin uses 11 pole bobbins which does not look similar enough to Dimarzio's 6 pole piece bobbin. Some people have bill lawrence pickups in double cream. Those have a single blade pole piece so it doesn't infringe on the trademark either.

Some companies have made double creams, but to get around the trademark they sold them with a pickup cover on. Its up to the pickup maker if they are willing to do this. Then you remove the cover and you have a non dimarzio double cream pickup.


That's genius! There you go, Eric.


Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:10 pm
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Pao wrote:
xjustice09x wrote:
The trademark covers appearance. Carvin uses 11 pole bobbins which does not look similar enough to Dimarzio's 6 pole piece bobbin. Some people have bill lawrence pickups in double cream. Those have a single blade pole piece so it doesn't infringe on the trademark either.

Some companies have made double creams, but to get around the trademark they sold them with a pickup cover on. Its up to the pickup maker if they are willing to do this. Then you remove the cover and you have a non dimarzio double cream pickup.


That's genius! There you go, Eric.


i checked this out, it used to get done alot and people posted it in too many forums so dimarzio started to send out cease and desist letters

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:29 pm
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MissMisstreater wrote:
xjustice09x wrote:
The trademark covers appearance. Carvin uses 11 pole bobbins which does not look similar enough to Dimarzio's 6 pole piece bobbin. Some people have bill lawrence pickups in double cream. Those have a single blade pole piece so it doesn't infringe on the trademark either.

Some companies have made double creams, but to get around the trademark they sold them with a pickup cover on. Its up to the pickup maker if they are willing to do this. Then you remove the cover and you have a non dimarzio double cream pickup.


i checked this out, it used to get done alot and people posted it in too many forums so dimarzio started to send out cease and desist letters


Wow.. I was kidding before, but they really are cream nazis! :shock:

I can't really believe this.. I can understand like a logo or label.. but let's face it. All pickups are practically identical, with few exceptions of course, how could they trademark a color? I'm guessing they did it like in the 70's or something but it's still stupid. Almost makes me not want to play dimarzios.. :?

Well since there isn't a way to get around it easily.. is it difficult to switch the bobbins on pickups?

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EricF wrote:
Well since there isn't a way to get around it easily.. is it difficult to switch the bobbins on pickups?


Since all the wire is coiled around the bobbins it is difficult. Things like magnet swaps aren't that hard though.

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:09 pm
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http://www.universaljems.com/cart/bobbin.htm

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Fri Feb 12, 2010 11:13 pm
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Found this on another board. VERY interesting.

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kevinT
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a talk with Steve from DiMarzio
I spoke with Steve from Dimarzio and had an interesting conversation with him. He turned out to be a very nice guy and easy to talk to. The main things that we talked about were the trademark on the double cream bobbins, China, and current activities with Fender.

Trademark – Steve stated that he knows that this trademark is very unpopular with folks especially pup makers. However, DiMarzio has no plans to relinquish the current trademark. He said that they’re not out to sue or get anyone. But they will be diligent and tough with folks who infringe because if they let up and allow one pup maker to produce double cream, then everyone else will jump on board and they would ultimately lose the trademark.

I asked how DiMarzio was able to get the trademark when Gibson was the first to use double cream. He basically stated that it wasn’t Gibson’s intent to use double cream and the bobbins were intended to have covers on them. Gibson knew the entire time as DiMarzio was pursuing trademark status on the double creams. Apparently Gibson didn’t have a problem with it because they never challenged the trademark. The justification for the TM is that DiMarzio was the first to intentionally produce the double creams to sell.

Gibson is currently using DiMarzio double cream bobbins (Super Distortion, I think) on the Ace Frehley Les Paul model.

DiMarzio’s double cream bobbin trademark is an American trademark, which means that it only applies to the USA. Pup makers in other countries can make double cream bobbins and sell them. However, they just can’t sell them in the USA.

Carvin is able to use double cream because of the design of the pole pieces. They were able to get around the trademark because DiMarzio’s patent showed only the typical layout of the pole pieces and, as you know Carvin’s are much different.

Seymour Duncan and DiMarzio went to court during the 80s and SD lost the case when they wanted to fight the double cream bobbin trademark. After the court case, SD licensed from DiMarzio the use of double cream bobbins until the license expired.. SD never renewed the license. Because it was a messy situation, Steve told me that DiMarzio has decided that they were NOT going to license the use of double cream bobbins any time soon….you may want to watch for those SD double cream 80’s pickups on ebay. They might be worth something.


Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:30 am
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A very interesting discussion about the double creme trademark including the legalities and all.

http://www.firebottle.com/fireforum/fir ... 000000.msg


Sat Feb 13, 2010 3:37 am
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Pao wrote:
Wtf? That's like Fender telling everyone they can't use red for example. How in the world did they get a trademark to that?


well, you can't sell guitar that's candy cola red.

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Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:51 am
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Thanks Pao.

You rock :P

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Pao wrote:
A very interesting discussion about the double creme trademark including the legalities and all.

http://www.firebottle.com/fireforum/fir ... 000000.msg


Hey guys, I'm Wolfe macleod, from the discussion in the link posted above. Doing a bit of searching, I foudn this thread and registered to post some info on the wrongness if this trademark. I am EXTREMELY verbal about the subject, and EXTREMELY well researched on it.


A trademark is used to identify the source company of a product. In other words, Dimarzio wants everyone to automatically assume that every Double Cream humbucker they see is a Dimarzio.

Various things and/or aspects of products are not allowed to be trademarked, such as the functionality of as item. (IE: The horseshoe magnet layout of a Rickenbacher pickup) of the round shape of a wheel ( a wheel rolls BECAUSE it is round)
(I'll add here, that somehow, Rick did indreed secure a trademark on the Horseshoe design - somehow convincing the UPSTO that it was not functional - which is a blatantly shameful lie )
If a "color mark" will subsatially deplete available use, it cannot be registered. (gee... three commonly accepted colors here, black, zeb, creme?)
Other things that cannot be trademarked - when the cost of production is affected by "The Mark" it cannot be tradmarked. (I'll get deeper into that in a sec)

Asthetics has been shown to be a functional part of products in several cases.

In 2005 or so, Dimarzio attempted to trademark yet another color, basically Chrome-plated or "mirrored" bobbins. it was denied on grounds of asthetic functionality, as some guitar have chromed or mirrored hardware, the mirrored bobbins match the theme of the guitar. (this was posted in the discussion linked above)

Now, a little more on Cost of production. Let say black bobbins are cheaper for me to produce. because of this, it would be cheaper to produce a black pickup. If I trademark it, everyone else is at a distinct dis-advantage paying a higher cost for thier colors. This is UNFAIR COMPETITION.
I know for fact, thru ancient Dimarzio invoices from thier machining company, that cream bobbins were cheaper to have made than black. Back then, it was subsantially cheaper.

The trademark should never have been granted on several grounds. It will continue as long as they continue to use it. it will never run out.

If anyone is so inclined, look up "TMEP Chapter 1200" at the USPTO website. Read it end to end. I have, several times.

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