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 Question About Scotts Kit 
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God Of The Sun
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i dont see it as cheating when you play as hard as scott do live! it save them a shitload of time on soundchecks and stuff like that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q794_DEWOuE <-- Ken´s clip right?

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Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:48 pm
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Neil Peart uses triggers. I'll bet anything on big tours, Portnoy does too.


As Scott explained...in huge arenas, it's very difficult to make good sounding drums without them.

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You can see at least 1 trigger on the tom just below his chin. If there's 1...there's many more.

Here's Scott's kit in 2004. Scott told me these triggers are sensitive to his hits...the harder he hits...the louder the sound.

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Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:03 am
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So its the same sound but louder? intrestressting!

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Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:56 pm
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No, it's not exactly the "same sound"

it's supposed to be the "same sound" if the drummer hit all the notes right, with the same strenght. As Ken said, it's a pre recorded sound, so if you barely touch the bass drum (for instance) or kick the hell out of it, it's going to be the same sound...


But, Ken posted pics, and it seems that Scott is using them even for some tones huh :?

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Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:49 pm
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for crying out loud people, it's not "cheating" by any means... Scott still has to play his parts on time, triggers do not allow you to play faster or more on time, etc... They're used to get the same sound out of the kit night after night after night, regardless of the size of the venue, indoor or outdoor, small club or arena, or regardless of the weather or temperature or altitude of the venue, all of which are factors that can make the kit sound different... Equate it to having a guitar that you know will always be in tune, but you still have to play your notes and chords on time, etc...


Mon Dec 29, 2008 2:52 pm
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Let's just say it is a compressor for the bass drum? I totally don't think that it is cheating. I have no idea why people think it's cheating.


Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:19 pm
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Xelatunes wrote:
for crying out loud people, it's not "cheating" by any means... Scott still has to play his parts on time, triggers do not allow you to play faster or more on time, etc... They're used to get the same sound out of the kit night after night after night, regardless of the size of the venue, indoor or outdoor, small club or arena, or regardless of the weather or temperature or altitude of the venue, all of which are factors that can make the kit sound different... Equate it to having a guitar that you know will always be in tune, but you still have to play your notes and chords on time, etc...


With that on mind, and considering, as Ken said, that they are "sensitive" to the dynamics, then it wouldn't be "cheating" as I thought before.

It could be compared to having the right head on the bass drum all the time.

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Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:20 pm
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Pao wrote:
Let's just say it is a compressor for the bass drum? I totally don't think that it is cheating. I have no idea why people think it's cheating.


I was about to say the exact same thing.


Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:22 pm
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Sir Robin wrote:
No, it's not exactly the "same sound"

it's supposed to be the "same sound" if the drummer hit all the notes right, with the same strenght. As Ken said, it's a pre recorded sound, so if you barely touch the bass drum (for instance) or kick the hell out of it, it's going to be the same sound...
That was what i said XD

I don´t think its cheating! its quite intressting actually =)

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Sir Robin wrote:
a BUMP on this old thread:

Well, I too heard that triggers are like cheating.

just think: if the sound is inconsistent, that's because the drummer isn't playing it right, and by right, I mean it like if a guitar player is playing sloppy notes.

I'm pretty sure Scott doesn't need them, and I like the sound of live drums better.

I'm pretty sure Neil Peart neither Mike Portnoy use them, and I love their drumming.

what do u guys think?


wrong, its not cheating at all....thats like having a go at peopel who use compressers and noise gates

ultimately if you wrote out the score for what scott was playing and the finished product on the cd they are......EXACTLY the same. hes still playing the beat hes just using technology to alter the sound he gets, which is fine....i mean he plays an acoustic instrument....credit to him for choosing to do it, and for LOGICAL reasons.

i PERSONALY dont like the sound of triggers, they are (as ken and scott said, consistent) BUT thats the problem for me, you listen to alot of scotts playing with priest and its so constant on the bass drum i just feel that that consistency is overpowering and mechanical

but hes the artist and thats what HE wants, its his product.... if people dont liek it dont buy it

in summary,

hes just manipulating his instrument electronicly, but thats part of playing an instrument. hes still playing the beat

ROCK ON SCOTT

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Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:13 pm
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I don't think it's the triggers people don't like. It's the sounds produced by the sound module. Alot of smaller bands use triggers, but they use cheap/generic samples. It's like getting a multi-effects unit & only using the factory presets without any editing. I know a couple of friends that use triggers, but they tweaked the samples that they use & they get an awesome sound.

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Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:03 am
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A great example is Scott Rockenfield's live sound on "Operation Livecrime"... He's used triggers ever since Rage For Order and has always got a killer live drum sound...


Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:22 am
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Go49rs110 wrote:
I don't think it's the triggers people don't like. It's the sounds produced by the sound module. Alot of smaller bands use triggers, but they use cheap/generic samples. It's like getting a multi-effects unit & only using the factory presets without any editing. I know a couple of friends that use triggers, but they tweaked the samples that they use & they get an awesome sound.


Yup. You got it.

If I was a drummer, I'd definitely use triggers.

I'm a guitar player, and I have only two pedals, a compressor and a noise suppressor. I'm more or less like Scott :lol: Only I'm not as good when you convert it :oops:


Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:54 am
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Sir Robin wrote:
a BUMP on this old thread:

Well, I too heard that triggers are like cheating.

just think: if the sound is inconsistent, that's because the drummer isn't playing it right, and by right, I mean it like if a guitar player is playing sloppy notes.

I'm pretty sure Scott doesn't need them, and I like the sound of live drums better.

I'm pretty sure Neil Peart neither Mike Portnoy use them, and I love their drumming.

what do u guys think?



I am pretty sure that they do. Most metal drummers trigger at least their bass drum, if not anything else.


Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:18 am
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triggers are not cheating, BUT they can be used in a way that is sort of cheating, a shitty drummer can always program them to play the exact same sound regardless of the hit so they can just bang away and as long as its on time it'll sound good, but if you put them on an acoustic set the odds are that their left foot would sound incredibly weak compared to the right, in that sense it could be considered 'cheating'. but someone like scott isnt going to have that problem.

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Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:43 am
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Sabbath wrote:
triggers are not cheating, BUT they can be used in a way that is sort of cheating, a shitty drummer can always program them to play the exact same sound regardless of the hit so they can just bang away and as long as its on time it'll sound good, but if you put them on an acoustic set the odds are that their left foot would sound incredibly weak compared to the right, in that sense it could be considered 'cheating'. but someone like scott isnt going to have that problem.


If the triggers aren't set to be sensitive to dynamics then it's like cheating because you could barely hit the drum pedal & it will boom.

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Wed Dec 31, 2008 5:38 am
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Go49rs110 wrote:
Sabbath wrote:
triggers are not cheating, BUT they can be used in a way that is sort of cheating, a shitty drummer can always program them to play the exact same sound regardless of the hit so they can just bang away and as long as its on time it'll sound good, but if you put them on an acoustic set the odds are that their left foot would sound incredibly weak compared to the right, in that sense it could be considered 'cheating'. but someone like scott isnt going to have that problem.


If the triggers aren't set to be sensitive to dynamics then it's like cheating because you could barely hit the drum pedal & it will boom.


exactly. and ive known shitty drummers to do just that.

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Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:04 pm
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Sabbath wrote:
Go49rs110 wrote:
Sabbath wrote:
triggers are not cheating, BUT they can be used in a way that is sort of cheating, a shitty drummer can always program them to play the exact same sound regardless of the hit so they can just bang away and as long as its on time it'll sound good, but if you put them on an acoustic set the odds are that their left foot would sound incredibly weak compared to the right, in that sense it could be considered 'cheating'. but someone like scott isnt going to have that problem.


If the triggers aren't set to be sensitive to dynamics then it's like cheating because you could barely hit the drum pedal & it will boom.


exactly. and ive known shitty drummers to do just that.


now THAT'S what I wanted to say.

But....can you set them to BE sensitive to dynamics? I always tought you can't do that.

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Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:09 pm
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Sir Robin wrote:
Sabbath wrote:
Go49rs110 wrote:
Sabbath wrote:
triggers are not cheating, BUT they can be used in a way that is sort of cheating, a shitty drummer can always program them to play the exact same sound regardless of the hit so they can just bang away and as long as its on time it'll sound good, but if you put them on an acoustic set the odds are that their left foot would sound incredibly weak compared to the right, in that sense it could be considered 'cheating'. but someone like scott isnt going to have that problem.


If the triggers aren't set to be sensitive to dynamics then it's like cheating because you could barely hit the drum pedal & it will boom.


exactly. and ive known shitty drummers to do just that.


now THAT'S what I wanted to say.

But....can you set them to BE sensitive to dynamics? I always tought you can't do that.


+1

At first, I thought they were not sensitive to dynamics, but after reading many posts, I came to the conclusion that they are the same as if you use the same "boost" pedal every night, regardless of the amp.

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Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:41 pm
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Sabbath wrote:
Go49rs110 wrote:
Sabbath wrote:
triggers are not cheating, BUT they can be used in a way that is sort of cheating, a shitty drummer can always program them to play the exact same sound regardless of the hit so they can just bang away and as long as its on time it'll sound good, but if you put them on an acoustic set the odds are that their left foot would sound incredibly weak compared to the right, in that sense it could be considered 'cheating'. but someone like scott isnt going to have that problem.


If the triggers aren't set to be sensitive to dynamics then it's like cheating because you could barely hit the drum pedal & it will boom.


exactly. and ive known shitty drummers to do just that.


Being able to keep a consistent sound, as a drummer, is important. With or without triggers, this is necessary. It shows the ability to properly manipulate the drum kit. I wouldn't say that drum triggers are inherently a "cheating device" but, in some situations, it can be used to disguise the holes in peoples' playing. For example, if you hire a rock drummer who uses triggers on his kick and he sounds fantastic with them, would you not be disappointed if, when he removed the triggers, his kick drum wasn't coming through at all because he wasn't in tune with the dynamics necessary to produce a loud, consistent "thud" on the bass drum?

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