View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:31 am



This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 360 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 18  Next
 A Clump of Condor Cells 
Author Message
Godzilla

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:42 pm
Posts: 908
Post 
Haha, so basically bitchen doesn't want to post any "info" because he knows that you will systematically prove him to be wrong. :roll:


Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:30 pm
Profile
Godzilla
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:26 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Denver
Post 
Bitchen wrote:
The reason many docs don't perform abortions is that it is a scary thing to have your clinic blown up by right winger radicals who think it is ok to blow up a doctor and their staff in order to save embryos and fetuses.

Or maybe they don't personally feel comfortable ripping a live child out of her mother's womb, something quite contratry to nature and the ethic of their profesison to preserve the lives of people. In another setting, that same child could just as well be their patient.

_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of freedom." - John F. Kennedy 1961


Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:05 pm
Profile
Unt! I move topics!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:56 pm
Posts: 27847
Post 
Speed_DemonX wrote:
For a start, all the morning after pill does is prevent the fertilised egg from implanting itself in the womb, therefore, "killing" the embryo, which, according to some of the anti-choicers on the board, is murder. [Directed at these people] How is the morning after pill better than an abortion if you consider the fertilised egg to be human from the moment of conception?


It's not. I was surprised that Ken supports making it widely available. I do not.

_________________
ImageImageImage


Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:28 pm
Profile WWW
Godzilla
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:26 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Denver
Post 
My guess is Ken wasn't aware it's an abortifacient.

_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of freedom." - John F. Kennedy 1961


Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:51 pm
Profile
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 6:44 pm
Posts: 11819
Post 
TheSurgeon wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
For a start, all the morning after pill does is prevent the fertilised egg from implanting itself in the womb, therefore, "killing" the embryo, which, according to some of the anti-choicers on the board, is murder. [Directed at these people] How is the morning after pill better than an abortion if you consider the fertilised egg to be human from the moment of conception?


It's not. I was surprised that Ken supports making it widely available. I do not.



It's actually...a matter of agreeing to the lesser of two evils to be honest. If I personally had a choice of allowing a potential embryo to not attach...and having a fetus taken out at 10 weeks....well...that's the one I'd rather accept.

Would I do it or use it? No....prevention is the by FAR the best method. But there are so many DumbASSES out there....

_________________
Ken Hower Wrote: My advice to everyone.....DO NOT purchase any of these photographs....Tim Findlay can jack off to his hearts content over his killer pictures...alone.

Regards,
Ken


Mon Jun 13, 2005 6:31 pm
Profile WWW
Viking Kong
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 10:00 pm
Posts: 8264
Location: Denver, CO.
Post 
KenHower wrote:
But there are so many DumbASSES out there....
Quote of the month!

_________________
Social justice is for pussies!


Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:37 pm
Profile
Viking Kong
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:25 pm
Posts: 8625
Location: Maryland, U.S.
Post 
KenHower wrote:
TheSurgeon wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
For a start, all the morning after pill does is prevent the fertilised egg from implanting itself in the womb, therefore, "killing" the embryo, which, according to some of the anti-choicers on the board, is murder. [Directed at these people] How is the morning after pill better than an abortion if you consider the fertilised egg to be human from the moment of conception?


It's not. I was surprised that Ken supports making it widely available. I do not.


It's actually...a matter of agreeing to the lesser of two evils to be honest. If I personally had a choice of allowing a potential embryo to not attach...and having a fetus taken out at 10 weeks....well...that's the one I'd rather accept.

Would I do it or use it? No....prevention is the by FAR the best method. But there are so many DumbASSES out there....


I agree with Ken. The pill is the lesser of two evils; if you don't offer an alternative, then worse could happen.

The closer a fetus gets to term, the more complications come to play. Here in my county in southern Maryland, abortions generally are capped off at 20 weeks. That is proof that people feel worse about late-term abortion than early term... and the Partial Birth Abortion Ban is also proof to the same claim.

I just thinkg eliminating a blastocyst is a more benign than ruthlessly hacking apart the limbs of a developed fetus and pulling its bloody stump out of the uterus.

_________________
- Ryan


Mon Jun 13, 2005 9:45 pm
Profile
Godzilla
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:29 pm
Posts: 763
Location: UK
Post 
Ryan wrote:
I just thinkg eliminating a blastocyst is a more benign than ruthlessly hacking apart the limbs of a developed fetus and pulling its bloody stump out of the uterus.

I couldn't agree with you any more, however, in my opinion it should still be allowed up to a certain point, which, as you were saying seems to be between 20-24 weeks.

Edit: Actually, reading it again, I wouldn't describe it as, "the lesser of two evils," but rather, "the better of two acceptable options."

_________________
"Rap isn't music, it's a semi-coherent negro!"


Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:01 pm
Profile
Unt! I move topics!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:56 pm
Posts: 27847
Post 
The distinction you guys are making is lost on me. To me, it's similar to if somebody said "I'm o.k. with executing innocent children, as long as they just put a bullet in their brain rather than torture them to death ... it's the lesser of two evils." I agree its the lesser of two evils, but who said you had to choose either one?

_________________
ImageImageImage


Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:08 pm
Profile WWW
Godzilla
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:26 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Denver
Post 
Ryan wrote:
I just think eliminating a blastocyst is a more benign than ruthlessly hacking apart the limbs of a developed fetus and pulling its bloody stump out of the uterus.
You know, I could murder someone with sleeping pills, and it would be very sanitary and painless. However, I still would have stolen from that person the rest of his natural lifespan, a grievous moral violation.

To consider the morning after pill morally acceptable, I would first need to understand why a human being's age has any relevance to the moral acceptability of killing him. What moral principle leads us to think it's okay to strip people of their human rights based upon age?

And if this is a matter of the lesser of two evils, what evil are we thinking of that is greater than killing someone?

_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of freedom." - John F. Kennedy 1961


Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:17 pm
Profile
God Of The Sun
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 4:42 am
Posts: 3045
Post 
i actually dont agree with idea of only being able to abort the fetus for a certain amount of time. Just cuz it makes more of an effect when the fetus is more human like doesnt mean aborting it at the start is alright.

it should be totally yes or no, IMO

_________________
Alt-F4


Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:58 pm
Profile
Godzilla

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 9:42 pm
Posts: 908
Post 
Like I said a long time ago, this all comes down to how we define a "person". If you say conception, then any abortion is murder. If you come up with any other reason (e.g. when it's self aware) it's likely to be far more clouded as these are not clear-cut, and the issues are easily debatable.


Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:26 pm
Profile
Viking Kong
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:25 pm
Posts: 8625
Location: Maryland, U.S.
Post 
Vic, it seems trivial when people add on deadlines to have abortions. But it is the only thing the powers that be can do at the moment to cut back on the amount of abortions that do happen.

Think about it... 49,000 abortions are performed after the first 20 weeks... when the baby can feel pain (as stress tests and reflex tests tell us, 20 weeks is actually a conservative guess on how late the baby can feel pain) and not long after the 20th week they start distinguishing voices from the womb. Out of all the medical facilities that offer abortion in my county, the ones that I've seen only allow abortion up to 20 weeks. This is a definite step you can take to cut back on the amount of abortions in the country.

The only other option would be to set your mind on a total ban, and not accept anything less. But, the only candidate who supported a total ban got less than 1% of the nation's votes. And if you don't accept compromise, then you will get nowhere.

Sandman wrote:
To consider the morning after pill morally acceptable, I would first need to understand why a human being's age has any relevance to the moral acceptability of killing him. What moral principle leads us to think it's okay to strip people of their human rights based upon age?


We're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, Sandman. I simply can't equate a blastocyst with a 20 week old fetus that can feel pain, fart, and cry. The blastocyst is so underdeveloped that it is easy to see why you would prefer women to eliminate it instead of a growing fetus. As for eliminating birth-control pills from our society... good luck. It would be harder to do that than it would be to overturn Roe v. Wade, and doing that is hard enough as it is.

_________________
- Ryan


Tue Jun 14, 2005 12:41 am
Profile
Unt! I move topics!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:56 pm
Posts: 27847
Post 
Ryan wrote:
As for eliminating birth-control pills from our society... good luck. It would be harder to do that than it would be to overturn Roe v. Wade, and doing that is hard enough as it is.


We're not talking about birth-control pills here. BCPs are a contraceptive ... they prevent conception. The morning after pill is not a contraceptive, it's an abortion pill. At present, BCPs are widely available, the morning after pill is not. When they do become widely available, the result will be more abortions, not less. And the difference will be, no one will know about them. The morning after pill is taken before the woman knows she's pregnant and nobody ever knows afterwards if she ever was pregnant. Less guilty feelings ... but no less guilt.

_________________
ImageImageImage


Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:53 am
Profile WWW
Motorman
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 2:13 am
Posts: 418
Location: The Valley Dude
Post 
I started out with no avatar and people started off being rude to me without any provocation on my part. I was given a hard time, switched to the little bubble on the couch and I was given a hard time and then started to give it back.....only switched avatars after having had it up to here!! I would love to just get along with the room, so if people would stop being pricks to me, I would be nice too. I am actually a funny, nice guy, but you guys really were rude to the newbie and I stand up for myself when provoked.

_________________
You want to kiss me, admit it!


Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:16 am
Profile
Unt! I move topics!
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 6:56 pm
Posts: 27847
Post 
Bitchen wrote:
I started out with no avatar and people started off being rude to me without any provocation on my part. I was given a hard time, switched to the little bubble on the couch and I was given a hard time and then started to give it back.....only switched avatars after having had it up to here!! I would love to just get along with the room, so if people would stop being pricks to me, I would be nice too. I am actually a funny, nice guy, but you guys really were rude to the newbie and I stand up for myself when provoked.


What color is the sky in your world?

_________________
ImageImageImage


Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:38 am
Profile WWW
Viking Kong
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2002 7:25 pm
Posts: 8625
Location: Maryland, U.S.
Post 
Bitchen wrote:
I started out with no avatar and people started off being rude to me without any provocation on my part. I was given a hard time, switched to the little bubble on the couch and I was given a hard time and then started to give it back.....only switched avatars after having had it up to here!! I would love to just get along with the room, so if people would stop being pricks to me, I would be nice too. I am actually a funny, nice guy, but you guys really were rude to the newbie and I stand up for myself when provoked.


Actually we were rude to Paris Hilton. And it was you who initiated the name-calling:

Bitchen wrote:
Most guys are so incredibly stupid. Big fake hard melons, made up of saline and scars is not attractive. Smaller, nice, real, soft, hand fulls are nice. Funny thing is that Paris has a pretty incredible body and the boneheads out there saying it isn't and they wouldn't have her as a girlfriend couldn't actually get her at all. Those of you saying this, I would think you should take care of your beer belly and your flab before you take on such incredible egocentric attitudes. :evil:


But like always you have your facts twisted in your favor.

_________________
- Ryan


Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:25 am
Profile
Godzilla
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2004 5:26 pm
Posts: 948
Location: Denver
Post 
Ryan wrote:
The blastocyst is so underdeveloped that it is easy to see why you would prefer women to eliminate it instead of a growing fetus.

All it means is you're killing a person who is a few weeks older. There is certainly a strong argument to be made for the sheer cruelty of dismembering a fetus to death. How anyone could actually do it, let alone a doctor, boggles the mind. But murder is murder whether "humane" in its methodology or not. Is the morning after pill better than partial birth abortion? Well, yeah, because of the torture factor. But you're killing a human individual either way.

Ryan wrote:
As for eliminating birth-control pills from our society... good luck. It would be harder to do that than it would be to overturn Roe v. Wade, and doing that is hard enough as it is.

No one advocates that.

_________________
"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to assure the survival and success of freedom." - John F. Kennedy 1961


Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:08 am
Profile
Motorman
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 2:13 am
Posts: 418
Location: The Valley Dude
Post 
No Ryan, you can keep arguing and arguing your wrongly remembered information, but you started it. You are a rude little shit. I tried to say let's move on, in a nice way, but I hope that others see that it is you that keeps the animosity there.

_________________
You want to kiss me, admit it!


Tue Jun 14, 2005 5:42 am
Profile
Motorman

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:30 am
Posts: 334
Post 
I'm totally in favor of abortion until the potential abortee is fully grown. Which is, say, 21 years old or thereabouts. It's morally wrong to compel a woman - and sometimes father - to slavishly support offspring they decide they'd rather do without. Until the potential abortee is fully grown and totally self-sufficient, it's the mother's choice whether to kill it or not.
And I don't want to hear any of you anti-choice Nazis wanting to take away a woman's Constitutional Right to Choose. Fascists.


Tue Jun 14, 2005 6:05 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.   [ 360 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 ... 18  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by ST Software for PTF.