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 Combining Penatonic with shred (3 notes per string). 
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is evil...Evil Joe

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:46 pm
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Post Combining Penatonic with shred (3 notes per string).
I'm familiar with the minor pentatonic, but soloing and just using the pentatonic gets kind of boring after a while the same with the blues scale.

So my question is... If your playing a song in Em using the pentatonic (for soloing), what do you do if you wanna shred?... 3 notes per string stuff. What scales do I use... I guess it should be called "modes".

Hope someone could help me.


Thu Jan 02, 2003 11:28 am
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is the Siren's Eye

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:20 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Newcastle, UK
Post Re: Combining Penatonic with shred (3 notes per string).
onkel44 wrote:
I'm familiar with the minor pentatonic, but soloing and just using the pentatonic gets kind of boring after a while the same with the blues scale.

So my question is... If your playing a song in Em using the pentatonic (for soloing), what do you do if you wanna shred?... 3 notes per string stuff. What scales do I use... I guess it should be called "modes".

Hope someone could help me.


Depends on the chords, if its a non-diatonic blues type progression the dorian mode works very well, just watch out for that major sixth against the chord built from the minor sixth (ie a Cmajor in the key of E) one of the best shred/blues licks is that one that PG does where he plays that symetrical pattern across the highest three strings. In the key of A the fingering is

-5-7-8-
-5-7-8-
-5-7-8-
--------
--------
--------

so its just like a Dorian mode with the blues note added.


Thu Jan 02, 2003 1:12 pm
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is evil...Evil Joe

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Post 
Thanks for the reply... I know that one. I use to play things like that pretty often... but what do you do when you play that but want to continue on the D, A, E string?

If I'm in Em can I take any of the modes that are a minor mode and just play one of those in Em... 3 notes per string. Like the Phrygian mode... I think that a minor mode.

I'm gonna try the Dorian mode... I know some modes just not the name on them... just the Ionian mode.


Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:46 pm
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Motorman

Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:54 pm
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If you want to know how to play minor pentatonic and shred it just listen to any zakk wlyde stuff, i heard a track of his of the album 'guitarists that rule the world' (wich also had pg's i understand completley) and he busts out so many pentatonic licks you would not beleive. Plus how the hell does he play all the hard shit with his guitar hung so low?


Thu Jan 02, 2003 2:53 pm
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Motorman
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For shred, I use 3-note-per string diatonic scales mostly. Once you learn the 7 patterns, the whole neck will open up for you and you'll see things you didn't think possible before. You can mix in penatonics too. Paul does it all the time.


Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:18 pm
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God Of The Sun
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Racer Who? wrote:
If you want to know how to play minor pentatonic and shred it just listen to any zakk wlyde stuff, i heard a track of his of the album 'guitarists that rule the world' (wich also had pg's i understand completley) and he busts out so many pentatonic licks you would not beleive. Plus how the hell does he play all the hard shit with his guitar hung so low?


He kneels and hold his guitar vertical most of the time. He will rest it on his hip so its almost straight up and down.

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Thu Jan 02, 2003 5:33 pm
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is evil...Evil Joe

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:46 pm
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Post 
gsuing wrote:
For shred, I use 3-note-per string diatonic scales mostly. Once you learn the 7 patterns, the whole neck will open up for you and you'll see things you didn't think possible before. You can mix in penatonics too. Paul does it all the time.


Alltough I have been playing for 8 years... I have no clue what a diatonic scale is :? Basicly all I know is the penatonic and and the blues progression some theory but not much. I learned the minor scale just a few days ago... but whatrs that good for, you can hardly solo with it.

Can't you give me an example of that diatonic scale... in tab or something. I'm quite new to the whole shred thing... but I should probably learn the whole mode thing.


Fri Jan 03, 2003 12:00 pm
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is the Siren's Eye

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:20 pm
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Post 
This is the A minor pentatonic scale im sure youre familiar with

---------------------5---
-----------------5-8------
-------------5-7----------
---------5-7--------------
-----5-7-----------------
-5-8----------------------

An A minor scale (which is a diatonic scale) would be

---------------------------------5---
--------------------------5-6-8-----
-------------------4-5-7------------
---------------5-7------------------
--------5-7-8-----------------------
-5-7-8------------------------------

Notice how the minor scale has the SAME NOTES as the pentatonic scale but simply has an extra 2 notes (which) are repeated on both octaves. So you can basically think of any minor diatonic scale (minor / aeolian, dorain or phyrigian) as a pentatonic scale with 2 new notes added.

You can do the same with the major scale (actually the minor scale is a MODE of the major scale called the aeolian).

Here is the C major pentatonic

---------------------5-8--
-----------------5-8------
-------------5-7----------
---------5-7--------------
-----5-7-----------------
--8----------------------

Look familiar? That cause it has THE SAME NOTES as A minor pentatonic it just resolves to a different note.

So from this the C major diatonic scale is....

------------------------------5-7-8--
-----------------------5-6-8-----
----------------4-5-7------------
-----------5-7------------------
----5-7-8-----------------------
--8------------------------------

See, just C major pentatonic scale with 2 new notes.

Making more sense now?


Fri Jan 03, 2003 3:29 pm
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is evil...Evil Joe

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:46 pm
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Post 
Thanks alot, that makes more sense. So if I got it right, If your in Am and want to solo you could use the Aeolian, Dorian or Phrygian modes starting on an A.

By the way, I just got my Ibanez RG 470 back today with my new Dimarzio Tonezone in it. It sounds great so far.


Fri Jan 03, 2003 5:25 pm
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is the Siren's Eye

Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:20 pm
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Location: Newcastle, UK
Post 
Yeah but you have to be careful of the chords in the progression.

For example in the progression

Am G D

you would probably use the Dorian mode in A instead of the minor/aeolian in A cause the F# in the D chord fits into the A Dorian mode (which is A B C D E F# G) if you used the A minor/aeolian (A B C D E F G) the F# in the D chord might clash with the F in the scale.

In another example lets say you play

Am7 Dm Am7 Dm F E7

Over the chords Am7, Dm and F the A minor scale would fit perfectly (just take note of the notes in those chords and compare to the A minor scale, youll find the notes in the chords all fit the scale). But on the E7 chord the G# note can clash with the G from A minor scale so you have to be aware of that chord and adjust the notes you play when the chord sounds (just play an E D or G# and youll sound fine).


Fri Jan 03, 2003 7:03 pm
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is evil...Evil Joe

Joined: Mon Nov 25, 2002 5:46 pm
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Location: Sweden
Post 
I never thought of that. So I can take any mode in A just as long as it fits with the chords... wich it should do if it has the same notes.

Thanks for all the replys... I just need to learn abit more about all the modes .


Sat Jan 04, 2003 1:21 pm
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