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 A Clump of Condor Cells 
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Godzilla
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Sandman wrote:
If you have a case to make that they aren't alive and human, then by all means make it. Tell us why the presence of human DNA isn't compelling. Tell us why humans, unlike any other animal in the animal kingdom, change their species some time after conception. Tell us why growth and metabolism can't be consider evidence of life. Tell us why a human organism in the womb is a part of the mother's body, even though it has it's own unique DNA, blood type, gender, metabolism, etc. Tell us all this. Make your case.

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Last edited by Sandman on Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:12 pm
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Godzilla

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Speed_DemonX wrote:
axe_man_oli wrote:
I'm with Sandman on this. An unborn child at any stage of development is human life. Its living, and it contains specific human DNA. Its a human, nothing else.

Everyone (Sandman) keeps saying this, but they are also unable to prove how a fertilised egg is different from the cells in any other part of the body, yet no one is saying that these other cells are humans.

Sandman wrote:
It has human DNA. If you don't accept that as a criteria for determining species, then I can't help you.


My point exactly, all other cells in the human body have human DNA, they are exactly the same, yet they are not human.


I'm glad I'm not the only one around here who understands these concepts, "Speedy". 8)

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:12 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
Sandman wrote:
If you have a case to make that they aren't alive and human, then by all means make it. Tell us why the presence of human DNA isn't compelling. Tell us why humans, unlike any other animal in the animal kingdom, change their species some time after conception. Tell us why growth and metabolism can't be consider evidence of life. Tell us why a human organism in the womb is a part of the mother's body, even though it has it's own unique DNA, blood type, gender, metabolism, etc. Tell us all this. Make your case.



A cancerous tumor has a metabolism and is growing.. Is that human life?

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Last edited by GTRMAN on Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:13 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I don't know who you're calling a "wimp"

You.

GTRMAN wrote:
but I believe I have answered all of your questions. Maybe not with concepts which you can understand, but I have answered them.

I rest my case.


Have you? You still never answered my questions.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:14 pm
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Godzilla
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Sandman wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
You're still ignoring the fact that a blastocyst is exactly the same as a cell from any other part of your body.

No it's not. Any other cell in my body is not an entire organism. YOU were once at the stage of being a blastocyst. YOU!! No one can say that about a cell from someone's body (unless they're a clone, but even then, it wasn't like it was just a cell that developed into an adult). No one can say, I used to be a blood cell. But everyone can say, I used to be a blastocyst .


What part about this post did you guys not understand?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:15 pm
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Godzilla
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Sandman wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
You're still ignoring the fact that a blastocyst is exactly the same as a cell from any other part of your body.

No it's not. Any other cell in my body is not an entire organism. YOU were once at the stage of being a blastocyst. YOU!! No one can say that about a cell from someone's body (unless they're a clone, but even then, it wasn't like it was just a cell that developed into an adult). No one can say, I used to be a blood cell. But everyone can say, I used to be a blastocyst .

Yes it is! Same DNA, therefore, according to you, it is a human. It is my understanding that given the right conditions, stem cells (primitive cells) can become any type of cell, including blastocysts (yes, I know a blastocyst is a clump of cells). Which is why anti-choicers are so pissed about stem cell research.

Sandman wrote:
Okay, don't read my posts. Just keep posting the same thing over and over again. Maybe some people will be fooled by you. But I'm betting they can read, and they'll see I've responded to your arguments.

The reason I didn't respond to this is because you edited it after several people had already responded (Can't fool me, bitch!).

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:15 pm
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Godzilla
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Speed_DemonX wrote:
Yes it is! Same DNA, therefore, according to you, it is a human. It is my understanding that given the right conditions, stem cells (primitive cells) can become any type of cell, including blastocysts (yes, I know a blastocyst is a clump of cells). Which is why anti-choicers are so pissed about stem cell research.

No. They're pissed about killing people to use their bodies as spare parts.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:16 pm
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Godzilla
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Speed_DemonX wrote:
Sandman wrote:
Okay, don't read my posts. Just keep posting the same thing over and over again. Maybe some people will be fooled by you. But I'm betting they can read, and they'll see I've responded to your arguments.

The reason I didn't respond to this is because you edited it after several people had already responded (Can't fool me, bitch!).

I don't know what you're talking about, but fuck you, too.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:17 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
Yes it is! Same DNA, therefore, according to you, it is a human. It is my understanding that given the right conditions, stem cells (primitive cells) can become any type of cell, including blastocysts (yes, I know a blastocyst is a clump of cells). Which is why anti-choicers are so pissed about stem cell research.

No. They're pissed about killing people to use their bodies as spare parts.


You still have yet to prove the part about them being "people".

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:18 pm
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Godzilla
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Speed_DemonX wrote:
Sandman wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
You're still ignoring the fact that a blastocyst is exactly the same as a cell from any other part of your body.

No it's not. Any other cell in my body is not an entire organism. YOU were once at the stage of being a blastocyst. YOU!! No one can say that about a cell from someone's body (unless they're a clone, but even then, it wasn't like it was just a cell that developed into an adult). No one can say, I used to be a blood cell. But everyone can say, I used to be a blastocyst .

Yes it is! Same DNA, therefore, according to you, it is a human. It is my understanding that given the right conditions, stem cells (primitive cells) can become any type of cell, including blastocysts (yes, I know a blastocyst is a clump of cells). Which is why anti-choicers are so pissed about stem cell research.


Again, any other cell in my body is not an entire organism.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:19 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
Sandman wrote:
Speed_DemonX wrote:
You're still ignoring the fact that a blastocyst is exactly the same as a cell from any other part of your body.

No it's not. Any other cell in my body is not an entire organism. YOU were once at the stage of being a blastocyst. YOU!! No one can say that about a cell from someone's body (unless they're a clone, but even then, it wasn't like it was just a cell that developed into an adult). No one can say, I used to be a blood cell. But everyone can say, I used to be a blastocyst .

Yes it is! Same DNA, therefore, according to you, it is a human. It is my understanding that given the right conditions, stem cells (primitive cells) can become any type of cell, including blastocysts (yes, I know a blastocyst is a clump of cells). Which is why anti-choicers are so pissed about stem cell research.


Again, any other cell in my body is not an entire organism.


And a zygote is ?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:19 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
You still have yet to prove the part about them being "people".

I know. You dehumanize some people in the human family. You aren't compassionate. You're a monster.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:20 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
And a zygote is ?

An entire organism. If you don't know this to be the case, go to the library and get some biology texts. Hell, you might get lucky and be able to find it on the Internet.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:21 pm
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Godzilla
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I'm out of here for now.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:22 pm
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Godzilla
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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
And a zygote is ?

An entire organism. If you don't know this to be the case, go to the library and get some biology texts. Hell, you might get lucky and be able to find it on the Internet.

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

You JUST said that other cells aren't human.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:22 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
You still have yet to prove the part about them being "people".

I know. You dehumanize some people in the human family. You aren't compassionate. You're a monster.


Now here comes the rhetoric and accusations. :D

8)

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:22 pm
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Godzilla

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Speed_DemonX wrote:
Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
And a zygote is ?

An entire organism. If you don't know this to be the case, go to the library and get some biology texts. Hell, you might get lucky and be able to find it on the Internet.

AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

You JUST said that other cells aren't human.


Circular arguments and name-calling seem to be Sandman's specialty.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:23 pm
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Superhero
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not again


Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:03 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
You still have not shown proof that a zygote or embryo is a human.


If you'd like more proof, write to the authors below.


"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]

"The development of a human begins with fertilization, a process by which the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Sadler, T.W. Langman's Medical Embryology. 7th edition. Baltimore: Williams & Wilkins 1995, p. 3]

"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and Müller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]

"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]

"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

http://www.princeton.edu/~prolife/artic ... otes2.html

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:18 pm
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Godzilla
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Speed_DemonX wrote:
Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
And a zygote is ?

An entire organism. If you don't know this to be the case, go to the library and get some biology texts. Hell, you might get lucky and be able to find it on the Internet.

You JUST said that other cells aren't human.

I never said that. They are parts of a human. They are not a human. A zygote is a human, just like an embryo is a human, a fetus is a human, an infant is a human, a toddler is a human, a child is a human, a teenager is a human, an adult is a human, an elderly person is a human.

Are you tying to understand, or are you just fucking with me?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:24 pm
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