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 A Clump of Condor Cells 
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I regard the inclusion of slavery into this argument as a means to establish a reactionary knee-jerk response. It has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

You know, those who can't learn anything from the moral struggles in history are doomed to repeat them. If you can't understand the relevance of the comparison to slavery, either (1) you haven't actually read and understood the argument (quite possible), (2) you're just a fanatic who only wants to shove propaganda out to deceive people (also possible), or (3) you're just stupid as shit (very, very possible). But don't act like I'm the one not making any sense.

I’m sorry, but I’m not going to be gracious to a guy who disregards every point made on this thread. Go waste someone else’s time.


Abortion is not slavery and I regard them as two COMPLETELY separate issues which should be examined apart from one another. I understand your argument.. I just reject the premise.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:32 pm
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Viking Kong
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GTRMAN wrote:
But seriously. The slavery angle IS over the top in this debate. The two issues are too far removed to equate.
Kind of like having sex with corpses, eh Gtrman? :wink:

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:33 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
Which part is incoherent?

The part about denying the humanity of a very young human. Just say, "I refuse to acknowledge fundamental, indisputable facts of biological science, and therefore I dogmatically deny that abortion is murder." At least that would make sense. It would be stupid, but we’d understand your irrationality. What is incoherent is claiming to care about facts, but at the same time refusing to acknowledge them. That’s intellectually dishonest.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:33 pm
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Godzilla

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Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
it has not been proven to be killing a living human being.
Would you concede then, that it has also not been disproven? If so, by all means, you obviously have every right to your opinion on this subject, as does everyone. I'm not knocking you for that.
But like I said, I'm guessing you don't like erring on the side of caution on critical matters such as these. Am I wrong?


But I am taking the stance on "erring on the side of caution". I don't believe in violating a woman's right to choose what she can do with her own body. A very basic and important right if you ask me.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:33 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Which part is incoherent?

The part about denying the humanity of a very young human. Just say, "I refuse to acknowledge fundamental, indisputable facts of biological science, and therefore I dogmatically deny that abortion is murder." At least that would make sense. It would be stupid, but we’d understand your irrationality. What is incoherent is claiming to care about facts, but at the same time refusing to acknowledge them. That’s intellectually dishonest.


You have presented no facts to show that an embryo or zygote is a human.. No-one ever has.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:35 pm
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Godzilla

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Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
But seriously. The slavery angle IS over the top in this debate. The two issues are too far removed to equate.
Kind of like having sex with corpses, eh Gtrman? :wink:


When did I ever endorse having sex with corpses?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:36 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
I pay little mind to abortion as it should be a woman's PERSONAL choice as it is HER body. Not only that, but it has not been proven to be killing a living human being.

It is human. Its DNA is human.

It is living. (If it weren't, you wouldn't need to abort it, would you?) As far as I know, all biological organisms that are gowing are alive.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:37 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
That's the beautiful thing about this country... I can excercise my right to voice it and no-one can stop me or say that it's wrong. :D

Oh yeah? Then why are you telling us we're wrong?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:38 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I pay little mind to abortion as it should be a woman's PERSONAL choice as it is HER body. Not only that, but it has not been proven to be killing a living human being.

It is human. Its DNA is human.

It is living. (If it weren't, you wouldn't need to abort it, would you?) As far as I know, all biological organisms that are gowing are alive.


I cut my hand and blood spills on the floor.. It's human DNA.. It must, therefore be human? I'm now a murderer?

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Last edited by GTRMAN on Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:39 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
That's the beautiful thing about this country... I can excercise my right to voice it and no-one can stop me or say that it's wrong. :D

Oh yeah? Then why are you telling us we're wrong?


Where did I say you were "wrong" other than to say abortion is murder?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:40 pm
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Viking Kong
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GTRMAN wrote:
Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
it has not been proven to be killing a living human being.
Would you concede then, that it has also not been disproven? If so, by all means, you obviously have every right to your opinion on this subject, as does everyone. I'm not knocking you for that.
But like I said, I'm guessing you don't like erring on the side of caution on critical matters such as these. Am I wrong?


But I am taking the stance on "erring on the side of caution".
Oh, but of course you are. After all, it's just a bloody pulp, right?

Granted, it's just my opinion, but it sounds like you're telling yourself that you "err on the side of caution" by twisting the logic in this, & I understand if you disagree. I'd expect nothing less.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:41 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
You have presented no facts to show that an embryo or zygote is a human.. No-one ever has.

I'll let Surgeon weigh in on that. But WTF do you think it is? You're just a complete idiot!!!! Go to *ucking school! You're obviously indoctrinated and uneducated.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:41 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
Where did I say you were "wrong" other than to say abortion is murder?
You answered your own question.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:42 pm
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Godzilla

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Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
it has not been proven to be killing a living human being.
Would you concede then, that it has also not been disproven? If so, by all means, you obviously have every right to your opinion on this subject, as does everyone. I'm not knocking you for that.
But like I said, I'm guessing you don't like erring on the side of caution on critical matters such as these. Am I wrong?


But I am taking the stance on "erring on the side of caution".
Oh, but of course you are. After all, it's just a bloody pulp, right?

Granted, it's just my opinion, but it sounds like you're telling yourself that you "err on the side of caution" by twisting the logic in this, & I understand if you disagree. I'd expect nothing less.


Once again. Who are we to tell a woman that she doesn't actually have the right to decide what she does with her body? To do otherwise would be more akin to slavery.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:42 pm
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Viking Kong
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GTRMAN wrote:
Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
But seriously. The slavery angle IS over the top in this debate. The two issues are too far removed to equate.
Kind of like having sex with corpses, eh Gtrman? :wink:


When did I ever endorse having sex with corpses?
Sandman doesn't endorse slavery either. You brought the subject up. Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. See the previous Schaivo thread.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:43 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Where did I say you were "wrong" other than to say abortion is murder?
You answered your own question.


Murder-The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.


You have not proven:

1. Malice.

2. Unlawfulness

3. That an embryo or zygote is human.

I'm still correct.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:44 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I pay little mind to abortion as it should be a woman's PERSONAL choice as it is HER body. Not only that, but it has not been proven to be killing a living human being.

It is human. Its DNA is human.

It is living. (If it weren't, you wouldn't need to abort it, would you?) As far as I know, all biological organisms that are gowing are alive.


I cut my hand and blood spills on the floor.. It's human DNA.. It must, therefore be human? I'm now a murderer?

It is part of a human body. Can't you see that there is a difference between a part of a body and a whole body? Is it okay to dispose of that blood? Of course. Is it okay to dispose of your entire body? Of course not. That will kill the whole organism, won't it?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:45 pm
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Godzilla

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Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Rich L. wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
But seriously. The slavery angle IS over the top in this debate. The two issues are too far removed to equate.
Kind of like having sex with corpses, eh Gtrman? :wink:


When did I ever endorse having sex with corpses?
Sandman doesn't endorse slavery either. You brought the subject up. Don't act like you don't know what I'm talking about. See the previous Schaivo thread.


I remember what you are referring to. It wasn't about having sex with a corpse, either. If you want to revisit the Schiavo case, then do so on THAT thread.

However, it WAS Sandman who introduced slavery into this debate. Go back over the posts.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:46 pm
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Godzilla

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Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
Sandman wrote:
GTRMAN wrote:
I pay little mind to abortion as it should be a woman's PERSONAL choice as it is HER body. Not only that, but it has not been proven to be killing a living human being.

It is human. Its DNA is human.

It is living. (If it weren't, you wouldn't need to abort it, would you?) As far as I know, all biological organisms that are gowing are alive.


I cut my hand and blood spills on the floor.. It's human DNA.. It must, therefore be human? I'm now a murderer?

It is part of a human body. Can't you see that there is a difference between a part of a body and a whole body? Is it okay to dispose of that blood? Of course. Is it okay to dispose of your entire body? Of course not. That will kill the whole organism, won't it?


Can't you see that a Zygote or Embryo is PART of a woman's body?

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:46 pm
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Godzilla
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GTRMAN wrote:
Murder-The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

You have not proven:

1. Malice.

2. Unlawfulness

3. That an embryo or zygote is human.

Okay, Mr. Nazi. By that definition, you could have escorted Jews into a gas chamber in Poland and argued it wasn't murder.

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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:48 pm
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