You have a camp?!?

I think that the reason alot of people aren't against this subject is because alot of people don't know enough about it. I certainly didn't before but now I do I am really against it with my other things like anti-racism, anti-homophobes ect ect.

I think if the majority of people did actually find out about this in any depth then alot of people would be against it...

Oodles, I think most pro-choicers know what abortion is. They just put the convenience of the mother infront of the existence of the baby. They feel that since the baby can not appreciate its life, that it should not be entitled to keep its life.

My conclusion:

How do we define a person? By intelligence/self-awareness? Ability to survive by itself? Or by having a full set of DNA?

The first 2 are implausible to me, so I choose the later.

Abortion is murder.

I don't mean they don't know what it is in Websters terms, I mean have it shown to them in a way that makes them believe that it is murder... I knew what it was but no-one ever made me think that it was murder and I hadn't really considered that it was before......

Maybe it was just a bit of a silly comment

Not at all.

Yeah, the problem with using any criteria other than the DNA is that any one of these criteria can also apply to people outside of the womb in certain circumstances, which tells us they aren’t characteristics that intrensically must be present to constitute a person.

For the end of an individual's lifespan, I would add brain wave activity to the criteria. And the reason for that is, (and this is my understanding), once one loses his brain waves, he's never coming back. But I don't apply this conditon to the very young, because lack of brainwaves is not a permanent condtion for them. Given time and nutrition, brain waves will come (as will a lot of other things).

I am religious, but I have always been bewildered as to why abortion gets tagged as a "religious issue," or a deep "personal issue," or a "women's rights issue."

I see it first and foremost as a human rights issue. It doesn't seem to me religious people have the market cornered on morality. You don't need to believe in God to see the carcass of a child and know something is terribly wrong. But of course, most people don't see the carcasses, so maybe that's the disconnect.

You wouldn't think we'd have to see pictures to get the point. But for me, that's what made me realize this isn't abstract or theoretical. These are real people we're talking about.

Well, I wasn't tagging it as anything... I was just saying that it's now up there with the issues that I personally feel quite strongly about.

Well, you mentioned other causes that you believe in, and I was really meaning to say, I can see anti-abortion tying in with those. Traditionally, it haven't been, but logically I think it does.

I once worked with a gal in her 20's in L.A. who was into doing volunteer work for Peta. She was really passionate about animal rights. I had this picture with the following caption in my cubicle in the office:


This is BABY CHOICE, a precious 4 1/2 month old little girl, burned by saline solution used to abort her. There are 4000 babies aborted each day in America (one every 20 seconds). Abortion is legal through all nine months of pregnancy. We have been led to believe that having an abortion is removing a mass of tissue. LOOK AT THIS LITTLE GIRL, she is more than a mass of tissue. She is a perfectly formed human being! Is THIS such a "good choice"?


One day my friend stopped by my cube and said to me, "You know, I just wanted to tell you that I saw that picture in here and it changed my mind on abortion. I used to be pro-choice, but just seeing that one picture has changed my mind." She went on, "What's funny is I took a class in college where all we studied all semester was the abortion issue, and I came out of that pro-choice! But just as with the animal rights issue, seeing the pictures makes all the difference in the world."

Video and pictures are very powerful, but sometimes picture takers and producers of videos manipulate information. Many times over, there are things that happen that are horrific, but they are taken out of context of how they happened and can be used by these film makers to present their viewpoint in the most horrific way. The Nazi's did this with progaganda. I am afraid of that a lot of the abortion pics are done with this in mind. There are more abortions though where it is still a fetus. All of the pictures I saw were of larger babies and those abortions are more and more NOT being done anymore.

I also would like to point out that many of the things that I put in my posts are done tongue in cheek (although this one is not) and they are deliberately blown out of proportion by the same four guys for their amusement. I think they are immature and need to stop being such mean nasty little pricks.

Also Oodles, if you are re-reading all of my posts, all I have to say is that you must have a lot of time on your hands and I feel for you.

I'm surprised so many's peoples minds are changed by seeing the pictures. True pro-choicers don't care about the gruesome nature of abortion.

I don't even care about the gruesome nature. It is a human rights issue. Denying a human the right to exist is far more gruesome than any physical wounds that abortion causes.

Showing nasty pictures of hacked up babies is only part of the battle. The real challenge is getting people to value the life of a human being. Pro-choicers stem out a variety of arbitrary stipulations that must be met in order for a fetus to be considered a "human" and I need to know where they come up with this list. Certainly not a science textbook.

Speaking of LIFE, I just got word that the relative who is ill in my family, has little time to live. I am pretty devastated. Will be on here infrequently, no time or desire to spar.

Please give your relative our best wishes. It brings us no joy knowing that someone is suffering or dying. He (or she) will be in our thoughts & prayers.

(P.S. you're still a punk )

What does that have to do with these abortion pictures? Out of context??? Give me a *ucking break!


You have your head up your ass.


Then look at the pictures again. And this time, open your eyes!

By the way, the fetal stage is from the end of the eighth week after conception to the moment of birth. I think you have your terms mixed up. But that's not surprising -- you don't seem to understand much about this topic.


Let's see,

1.31 million abortions a year x 12% after the first trimester =

156,000 children killed annually after the first trimester

But of course, as I've argued, the age of the victim is irrelevant regarding the murder. Age only comes into play when you're considering the torture factor. Consider how this feels to a live baby:




Backpedaling. Weak.


All he was doing was refuting your lame claims with the content of your own posts. That's no reason to insult him. You're the one who wrote those things. You're just a bully.

Humans are endangered?

Did momma Condor agree with her egg being destroyed?

You see what's happening here, guys? The mentality is that the human rights of a child can be taken away by his or her parent. Makes you wonder why the hell child abuse is illegal!

See what's happening here, folks. People are giving something that may not even be considered "human" rights..



Hi Sandman..

Yeah, exactly, I should be able to kick my kid's ass anytime I want.

LOL..