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 Should I get a PGM301? 
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Motorman
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Post Should I get a PGM301?
Well, the obvious answer would be yes, however, I'm still very undecided.

Currently, I have an Ibanez RG2820 (for anyone who wants to see what she looks like - http://www.ibanezregister.com/Gallery/RG/gal-rg2820ctvv.htm ) Since I purchased it a few years ago, I have had so many problems with the trem (Edge Pro), it's more a case of inexperience as I have never got to grips with it since I purchased it. If I replace one string then it would be fine, but if I replace all six, then it's just a huge mess, it's impossible to set the angle while having it perfectly tuned, and believe me, I have tried relentlessly.

So...an option would be to sell it and get a PGM301, my only beef with the model is the fact that it's a signature, and it does slightly bother me. This may sound strange, but I don't think I could truely say it's my guitar, I would always associate it as PG's.

Taking my abilities as a guitarist and my amplifier out of the equation, would anyone consider the PGM301 to be a versatile guitar? I would like my guitar to be able to achieve a variety of tones.

Another concern is how well it stays in tune, can any owners tell me how well your model stays in tune? I have finally started to get some serious amount of practice in, and I want a guitar that I can literally plug in and play, something really simple, and from what I have seen the PGM301 looks just right.

My RG has an ultra neck and I think the 05' PGM301 has it's own dimensions altogether, will I notice the difference? It's only a millimeter of, here and there. The radius is exactly the same.

The last option would be to keep the RG and purchase the "Tremol-no", but I'm not sure that it's in production yet, and I have no idea how much it will cost. Also, I'm not sure if it would be the end of my trem dilemna.

That's about it for now, any input much appreciated.


Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:25 pm
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Superhero
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You've had the guitar a few years and still can't change strings properly?

That's just laziness man :lol:

www.ibanezrules.com will have an article, but I can't remember what it says.

Otherwise, just put a block underneath the trem when you change strings (so it can't go backwards.. when you remove the block it'll be fine.

The other option is to do one at a time. It works but means you can't really clean the fretboard.

If you don't use the trem, sell the guitar and get another.. there's absolutely no point in having a floyd rose if you aren't gonna use it. You could always block it and put on a hardtail, but that'd kill resale value

The PGM is quite a versitile guitar IMO, and stayed in tune fine when I played it. The best way to figure out if you like the neck or not is to play it yourself

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:37 pm
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Motorman
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Thanks for the input. I have no problem replacing strings, it's setting the angle while having it perfectly tuned.


If I blocked the trem when I change strings, by the time I'm in tune the angle would be seriously negative and by the time I have adjusted it back down to neutral it would be out of tune again due to the significant change in the angle.

The problem I run into is that I don't have enough of the screw left to do anymore adjustments.


Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:44 pm
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Godzilla
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^Well, you can always get more springs, or block your bridge like I did on both my RG's.

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:14 pm
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Motorman
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So, what problems were you having before you decided to block your RG's?

I may wait for the tremol-no, sounds like a good device. Then, I would love to have something new...


Wed Sep 21, 2005 5:31 pm
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Superhero
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dragonforcedotcom wrote:
The problem I run into is that I don't have enough of the screw left to do anymore adjustments.


Yep, you need another spring added, unless you're referring to the screw threading...

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:37 pm
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Godzilla
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dragonforcedotcom wrote:
So, what problems were you having before you decided to block your RG's?

I may wait for the tremol-no, sounds like a good device. Then, I would love to have something new...


Oh, I didn't have any problems, I was just tired of the constant hassle when changing strings so I thought I might as well block it.

I didn't use the trem much, and it gives better sustain, no complaints here (yet) :wink:

Stuff like the tremol-no is pretty much a waste of money imo... Make 1 or 2 wooden blocks (depending how you want to block them, I have 1 in my 1550 en 2 in my 550, both basically operate the same way, only you can't really use the 1550 in anything lower than Eb because that side of the tremolo block isn't blocked) and you can still remove them anytime you like and restore the movement of the trem.

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:49 pm
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Motorman
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I'm referring to the screw which is adjusted in order to change the angle of the trem.

and you are possibly correct, but, I have actually managed to do it fine in the past, only a few times though. Also, I have had it set up a few times, and it was fine. I have always had 3 springs, would you still suggest adding another one still?

I'm using 10-46.

Thanks again.


Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:50 pm
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Godzilla
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Well, one really can't say because I don't know if you tune them correctly, because if you don't, you can simply keep adding tension you know... All stuff we don't know...

Myself, I always had no more than three springs and I've always used 10-46 and I never had a problem, I had about a cm left.

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:03 pm
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Motorman
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Yeah, I guess it's not an issue with the springs.

One thing I don't quite understand is when someone mentioned to block the bridge when I replace strings so the bridge doesn't sink too low. If I replaced all the strings at once and blocked the bridge so it is parallel to the body then by the time everything is in tune then it would be very negative.

I just don't know where I'm going wrong.


Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:04 pm
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Godzilla
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^Well ofcourse, that's logical.

You don't replace them all at once, you replace them one by one.

When you block the bridge, you basically transfer the tension from the tuned to 440 hz strings to the block. When you tune up, and the tension is not as great -or greater for that matter- as it was before and the block is still holding, obviously the bridge is going to be at a different level.

This just adds to my thoughts about your string-changing habits being the problem here.

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:21 pm
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Godzilla
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As I read your posts, dragonforcedotcom, I keep getting the impression that there's something you're not telling us. Not that you're trying to hide anything, more like maybe you're forgetting to mention something.

Here's some excerpts from your posts:

dragonforcedotcom wrote:
...I have an Ibanez RG2820... ..Since I purchased it a few years ago, I have had so many problems with the trem (Edge Pro), it's more a case of inexperience as I have never got to grips with it since I purchased it. If I replace one string then it would be fine, but if I replace all six, then it's just a huge mess, it's impossible to set the angle while having it perfectly tuned, and believe me, I have tried relentlessly.

...The last option would be to keep the RG and purchase the "Tremol-no", but I'm not sure that it's in production yet, and I have no idea how much it will cost. Also, I'm not sure if it would be the end of my trem dilemna.

...Thanks for the input. I have no problem replacing strings, it's setting the angle while having it perfectly tuned...


...If I blocked the trem when I change strings, by the time I'm in tune the angle would be seriously negative and by the time I have adjusted it back down to neutral it would be out of tune again due to the significant change in the angle...

...The problem I run into is that I don't have enough of the screw left to do anymore adjustments...

...I'm referring to the screw which is adjusted in order to change the angle of the trem...

...and you are possibly correct, but, I have actually managed to do it fine in the past, only a few times though. Also, I have had it set up a few times, and it was fine. I have always had 3 springs, would you still suggest adding another one still..?

...I'm using 10-46.


Now, since I own an RG550, which also has a floating, Floyd Rose-style trem, and it stays in tune great and isn't horrifyingly difficult to change strings on and tune, I'm perplexed at all the problems you seem to be having. So I have a few questions for you.

Do you change tunings a lot? When your guitar is in tune, the tension of the strings is in balance against the tension of the springs in the trem unit. Changing the tension on just one string (as when you break a string or tune from standard EADGBE to a half-step flat or to DADGBE or to any other tuning) will throw the tension on all the other strings out of whack and you'll have to re-tune. That's just the way it is with a floating trem.

Have you inspected your trem for signs of damage? If the knife-edges or the posts they contact are rough or damaged or improperly hardened, they'll make an otherwise great design impossible to tune and keep in tune.

Been to ibanezrules.com yet? That's a great site for picking up tips on keeping your guitar in fine fettle. Have a look at this page there: http://www.ibanezrules.com/tech/setup/index.htm A few of those articles address exactly the problems you're having and the questions you're asking.

Good luck.

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Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:40 pm
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Motorman
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Resiliance: I will go back in time to a week or so ago...The angle of the trem was parallel and I was in standard tuning, then I broke my high E which obviously caused the trem to lose some tension therefore sink slightly. So I replaced the string, gave it a stretch and it was fine, then I decided that 3 other strings needed replacing. I replaced them all seperately, but coming to think about it I may have rushed the last 2 strings and not stretched them out properly.

Okamiyama: My guitar stays in tune pretty well. The only time it does go out of tune is when I'm setting the angle when it's already in tune (obviously) and when the angle is so extreme that by the time I have tuned the low E once I have tuned the A string, then the E is already flat, this happens with all the strings, and eventually there is no more screw left. Does this make sense?

I always stay in standard tuning, and there is no damage on the trem. I have read the tutorials on Ibanez Rules, he seems to only address minor adjustments though.

Thanks again.


Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:22 pm
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Godzilla
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dragonforcedotcom wrote:
Resiliance: I will go back in time to a week or so ago...The angle of the trem was parallel and I was in standard tuning, then I broke my high E which obviously caused the trem to lose some tension therefore sink slightly. So I replaced the string, gave it a stretch and it was fine, then I decided that 3 other strings needed replacing. I replaced them all seperately, but coming to think about it I may have rushed the last 2 strings and not stretched them out properly.


Well... You see...

The bridge was parallel you say, which would mean the springs were set up correctly to balance the tension of one set of strings.

Now... When you replace a string, the tension of the old set of strings is disrupted, and thus so is the bridge level, because new strings don't have the same tension as the old ones did. I always replaced entire sets at once because I knew I could run into problems. (even though I only rarely broke any strings, I changed sets at once anyway, mixing old&new=not good)

Another thing: when you tune that E string up, and stretch it, and tune it again, you've automatically increased the tension anyway. Think about it, you tune it up (tension+1), you stretch it, and tune it up again (tension+2). The more strings you do this on, the more noticable, ofcourse.

Now, combine those two, and I think you've come a little closer to solving your problem... I hope.


:wink:

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Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:06 am
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Motorman
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You're right. Thanks for all the help.


Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:12 am
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is evil...Evil Joe

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If you're considering keeping the RG, I'd look into finding an Ibanez Backstop. They are excellent tremsetters, and they allow you to still fully use your Edge, other than the fluttering type effects, and it'll stay in tune when you break a string and stay set nice when you change strings, as long as you don't change gauges. In addition to me having one for sale right now (and just to prove I'm not only looking out for myself here), ebay has them every now and then, and people sell them over on Jemsite from time to time, too. And, if you go to Ibanezrules.com and go to the "Resources" section and click on catalogs, there's a scan of the original brochure for the Backstop that will help you set it up.

As for the PGM301 staying in tune. Absolutely - it's great. Every PGM I've had has stayed in tune, no matter how hard I play it, including the 500, 301, and 90th hardtail models.

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Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:55 pm
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Dr. X
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You could always buy a fixed bridge Ibanez like the RG321MH and customise it with decent pick ups etc, that's what I did and it's pretty cool and still cheaper than the PGM301 8) I have the same problems with signature guitars too as I have mentioned previously on this forum.


Fri Sep 23, 2005 11:03 am
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Motorman
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I don't think I would go for a 321, being korean made and all. I would go for a Japanese made 421, they are fairly hard to come by these days though.


Fri Sep 23, 2005 12:36 pm
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Dr. X
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I thought that but it seems to make fuck all difference - Try one and see what you think. The only thing that sucks is the pickups! :D


Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:32 pm
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God Of The Sun
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the tuners aren't the greatest either..... but i still loved my RG321 when i had it.....very simplistic in design.

Ron

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Fri Sep 23, 2005 1:41 pm
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